The old stocks in Pemberton

When KFC, despite the public outrage, the old stocks were moved to the back of the building where nobody can see them.
I remember the stocks when I was a girl living in Kitt Green, I the middle of a small garden area at the junction of Fleet Street and Orrell Road.
Looking at old Pemberton photos,there used to be a pub on each corner at that junction so where were the stocks then? Anyone know?

Is there a junction between Fleet Street and Orrell Road?
Was it not Loch Street?
Were the stocks in Pemberton, or Orrell?

There lies the question!

Is this thread about the same?

https://www.wiganworld.co.uk/communicate/mb_message.php?opt=f2&msd=854863

There's a lot of people posting on it that aren't around anymore

Yes tonka, there is a junction between Orrell Road and Fleet Street. - Ormskirk Road ends round above there.
Yes there were stocks there and unless they have moved again, they are sited at the back of KFC near the Lock and Key shop.
Maybe you should have a look.
Obviously you don’t know where they were before the pub was pulled down.

Yes tonka, there is a junction between Orrell Road and Fleet Street. - Ormskirk Road ends round above there.
Yes there were stocks there and unless they have moved again, they are sited at the back of KFC near the Lock and Key shop.
Maybe you should have a look.
Obviously you don’t know where they were before the pub was pulled down.

No matter how many times you say it, there is NO junction between Orrell Road and Fleet Street.

But there is a junction there Tonker. It is a crossroads junction where 4 roads meet at this same junction with them being; Ormskirk Road, Fleet Street, Orrell Road and White Street. There is also another type of junction being a T-Junction where Loch Street being a minor road meets with a major road that is the A577 Orrell Road. Yes I've checked today's highway code and google maps and the 1914 maps to see how it used to look. I was also there 2 days ago. My interest of the area is close family lived in Brook Lane in the 50's. Back on topic I've asked who's still alive and unfortunaley no-one has memories of these stocks.

There’s plenty junctions in the area. However, none are a junction of Orrell Road and Fleet Street.
I also know that locality very well.

Re-read what i said or just look at a thing called a map or do even better and walk around the place like i have been doing recently

There's a Fleet Street junction with Ormskirk Road.

LINK

The Machine arms is where the old men are gathered

Link

"Four Lane Ends"? What a ridiculous name to call that junction!
Why? Because there's only two Streets and a Road, none are a Lane. And only two are "Ends" !

Tonks how may places have "end " at the end of them .Locally we have Simms road end but it is a junction of Newton Road Garswood Road and Billinge Road but every one knows it has Simms road End but no road now exists with this name Some roads did just have "Ends " because that is how they where built meaning that road ended and maybe another then started. Who can define how the word came about?

Ormskirk Road continues to the border with Orrell, which is at the junction of Barracks Street, Orrell Road, Pigot Street (side of travellers rest), so White Street and Fleet Street have a junction with Ormskirk Road only

Are yoo boared

I don't suppose jilly will be back any time soon to see tonkers tripe

It's amazing how a general enquiry can become a totally different subject.
It's like the old WW2 general asking a private to travel back to bases where the instruction to each other base was to "send reinforcements, we are going advance" - due to the statement at several bases and passing on the info - it became "Send three and fourpence, were going to a dance!"

“Send three and four pence, we need to buy a map”!

Posted by: First Mate (1443)
I don't suppose jilly will be back any time soon to see tonkers tripe

I agree, he doesn't half come out with some cack

The only “cack” on here is the claim that some stocks were at the junction of Fleet Street and Orrell Road!

Oh., hang on a minute, “four lane ends” is “cack “ too!

Looking at ancient OS maps there was a public house (with other linked properties) where KFC is now. I would expect that the stocks have been moved several times to accommodate development. It often happens. For example, Mabs Cross was moved from its original position to accommodate the widening of the busy main road.

Ah., but JR, was Mabs Cross on the junction of Wigan Lane and Crompton Street?

And, if it wasn’t, WHY wasn’t it?

Tonker; as I am informed from council archives (and an ancient drawing) it appears to have been in the middle of the road opposite to what seems like the old building that Jimmy Collins turned into a restaurant/hotel/apartment. I guess it could have been originally anywhere as maps only go back so far. There are many speculators on here - but I prefer to scour every reference for accurate or reasonably accurate info.
I guess a lot of folk think Cleopatra commissioned her 'needle' obelisk to be built on the side of the Thames in London!!!

Doooooooah!

Look at the map and find the junction of Crompton Street and Wigan Lane!

“ There are many speculators on here - but I prefer to scour every reference for accurate or reasonably accurate info. ” ? Eh.?

I’m back. Good to have common sense from Pewfall, First Mate and others.
Tonka doesn’t know everything!

(Comment removed because it broke the rules)

Temper,temper

Temper,temper

I don’t know what ‘rules’ were broken in that post? Simply factual information regarding the thread subject!
Believe what you will, there’s NO JUNCTION OF FLEET LANE AND ORRELL ROAD!

Er ..... excuse me. I drive up Fleet Street every night and the junction from there is on Ormskirk Road.

Turn right at the lights and Orrell Road starts about 100 yards or so further on. At the side of the White Swan pub opposite Fleet Street, there's a little road, then another bank of shops starting with Shalimar, and that's where Orrell Road starts; so Tommy T and Tonker are correct. There is no junction between Fleet Street and Orrell Road.

Check out Shalimar, Pemberton, on Google maps and it's very clear that that's where the Orrell sign is.

Tonker,
I have perused several OS maps and the earliest that I can find that gives mention of Mabs Cross is the 1872-1914. The position is in the middle of the road near to where it has been repositioned. I can't find anything that suggests it may have been on the junction with Crompton Street. I have had good reliable info from you in the past which has been gratefully received, so could you suggest where your sources identify it at the lower junction. I'm intrigued.

Mabs Cross off, JR! Tha's abaaayt two maaaaile off coowerce, raaaaight!

Now, all you know-nowts, tell MollieM she's wrong too! Or, simply have her post removed for 'breaking the rules'!!

LOL! You're right, Tonker (as usual). Just been looking at those maps again and, although the Orrell sign is where I said it was, Orrell Road actually starts at the lights, more or less a few yards down from outside KFC. I did say you and Tommy T were right though about the junction.

Jilly said:
Yes there were stocks there and unless they have moved again, they are sited at the back of KFC near the Lock and Key shop.

At the location on Fleet Street you mention, Jilly, there used to be two very old short upright stones which, I think, commemorated where the stocks once stood. Having looked as closely as I could at that little area, there appears now to be only a wooden bench on some cobbles.

Jilly:

Just found something. If you go to the top of this board you'll see a black Search Box on the right. Type in there "Old Stocks in Pemberton" and there's a long thread in there from 2012 started by Flaggy Delf. It's very informative.

Mollie , My mum lived there from 1953,well, the corner of Brook Lane / Ashurst Fold. She is still around with astute memory. She disagrees with your version of the stocks that you assume are more correct based on your scrutinising of old maps and your qualification of happening to pass today's KFC in a car. Where Orrell Road starts or stops is totally irrelevant. Jilly started this thread asking where the Stocks were / are?

Molly please read from the start of this thread. I posted a link to the same Flaggy Delf's same thread 3 weeks ago.

Aye., Irrelevant!

I posted where I was told the stocks had been, but someone had the post removed. I wonder who it was?

The moot point is Tonker nobody knows where the stocks exactly were.

I too can place a link to a random street scene that is equally irrelevant and proves nowt : Aye, Irrelevant !

The moot point is, Pewfall, thanks to my link, jilly now knows where Ormskirk Road ends and Orrell Road finishes. Or vice-versa, depending on which way you're going!

The point is, nobody knows where the stocks exactly were.

Get to know!

And JR's still lost, somewhere up Wigan Lane!

Tonker. I used the word 'Moot'. Moot is an adjective that means open to discussion, question or a matter debateable. This thread is named "The old stocks in Pemberton". Jilly's initial post expanded further to enquirie if anyone knows where these stocks were located? Your constant deviation warbling on about where one road may start or end is totally irrelevant. The moot point is the about location of the Old Stocks and nothing else. I posted "nobody knows where the stocks exactly were." . You then copy and paste my same exact text. Thank you ...... I am glad you have chilled.

Tonker,

"Mabs Cross off, JR! Tha's abaaayt two maaaaile off coowerce, raaaaight!"
That was your reply...
I haven't a clue what you are on about! I had originally talked about Mabs Cross being near to where it is now and you suggested it was (or should have been) on the junction of Standishgate and Crompton Street. Not a clue what you are suggesting now as I have already advised on old OS maps of the area!!!

JR., I'm certain you're not a bit simple.
It follows that I haven't a clue why you didn't 'put two and two togather' and realise that I was comparing 'Mab's Cross being at the junction of Wigan Lane and Crompton Street' to jilly saying that 'the stocks were at the junction of Fleet Street and Orrell Road.

I also asked, "And, if it wasn’t, WHY wasn’t it?"

The answer to that question should have been "because there is no junction between Wigan Lane and Crompton Street", just like there's no junction between Fleet Street and Orrell Road !

Thanks Mollie M
I did have a look at the other post but it refers to a different set of stocks.
I don’t want to upset Tonker any further by describing the junction but those stocks are still there at a place that was known as Windy Arbour.
I think it is where Winstanley Road starts and Ashton Road ends. Unless Tonker knows different???

Tonker... apologies. Understood. I must have been having a older than mid-life moment! Cheers.